jwfacts has an article that explains why the great crowd must be in heaven.
i am also aware that many of these are the same arguments that stemmed from the 'awakenings at bethel' so my statements are not simply attacks of jwfact's character (since these arguments are probably not original) but rather his copy and paste of what others have said instead of verifying it as 'fact' for himself.. so here are jwfacts arguments:.
1. he shows that russell and rutherford (at some point) believed that the great crowd were in heaven.. 2. each term that describes the great crowd of revelation 7 is else used to described the anointed by the wt.
once again, you don't like the answer and you've decided not to listen...what more is there to say?
so that said...spirit directed organization that's somehow putting child molestors into positions of leadership...wanna explain that one?
how about everything the watchtower society said about not having to turn in time, and all of that fun stuff?
jwfacts has an article that explains why the great crowd must be in heaven.
i am also aware that many of these are the same arguments that stemmed from the 'awakenings at bethel' so my statements are not simply attacks of jwfact's character (since these arguments are probably not original) but rather his copy and paste of what others have said instead of verifying it as 'fact' for himself.. so here are jwfacts arguments:.
1. he shows that russell and rutherford (at some point) believed that the great crowd were in heaven.. 2. each term that describes the great crowd of revelation 7 is else used to described the anointed by the wt.
and i had just tried to delete it to respect eom's request lol. in any case...here goes...
considering that you've possibly broken the rules, do you REALLY think you can just demand people do as you please?
you've been answered, you didn't like the answers you were given so you rejected them. there's nothing left to argue.
now how's about explaining how your spirit directed organization has been letting guys like campos rape 6 year olds for years while rising through the ranks to become an ms and an elder.
was that god's mistake? is that acceptable? does this mean god isn't perfect?
coupled with the covington trial and the mistakes and outright scandalous lies (seriously...MIRACLE WHEAT? $1000 CANCER CURES IN 1913???) it's really starting to look like the wts isn't much more than a corporation out for the bottom line. i can't imagine why else they'd sell miracle wheat and cancer cures in the magazines. also can't understand why they'd need to purchase mansions in san diego for the "ressurected ones". surely god wold have told them not to bother bc no one was gonna be ressurected. i mean, the caddilac 16s and the mansions during the roaring 20s and depression 30s? the watchtower president buying cases upon cases of liquor during prohibition? broken laws, false prophecies...totally = directed by god.
jwfacts has an article that explains why the great crowd must be in heaven.
i am also aware that many of these are the same arguments that stemmed from the 'awakenings at bethel' so my statements are not simply attacks of jwfact's character (since these arguments are probably not original) but rather his copy and paste of what others have said instead of verifying it as 'fact' for himself.. so here are jwfacts arguments:.
1. he shows that russell and rutherford (at some point) believed that the great crowd were in heaven.. 2. each term that describes the great crowd of revelation 7 is else used to described the anointed by the wt.
jwfacts has an article that explains why the great crowd must be in heaven.
i am also aware that many of these are the same arguments that stemmed from the 'awakenings at bethel' so my statements are not simply attacks of jwfact's character (since these arguments are probably not original) but rather his copy and paste of what others have said instead of verifying it as 'fact' for himself.. so here are jwfacts arguments:.
1. he shows that russell and rutherford (at some point) believed that the great crowd were in heaven.. 2. each term that describes the great crowd of revelation 7 is else used to described the anointed by the wt.
i'm sure you don't want to talk about that. the truth is hard to swallow, just like it was for many of us coming out.
at some point, you need to face facts like an adult or run away like a child. what's it gonna be?
would you like to know what the watchtower said in court just a FEW MONTHS AGO?
this, btw was taken from court documents that you are more than welcome to check out on your own. i'm posting this for your convenience.
how is it your spirit directed organization, with it's all knowing and perfect god, managed to allow that monster to rape children for DECADES.
the elders knew, he had confessed and yet, under prayerful consideration, he is made a ministerial servant IN THE VERY SAME YEAR HE STARTS SODOMIZING A 6 YEAR OLD.
are you REALLY going to brush that aside as imperfect men? i wonder how you'd feel if that was you being sodomized, or if that was your own child?
but wait! there's more...
take a good long look at those statements, made by YOUR organization.
you don't have to turn in time, you don't have to go to mtg for fs, you don't have to go to specific territories, you don't have to invite people to the kingdom halls or even TRY to conduct bible studies. think about that. they denied in COURT DOCUMENTS that witnesses have to ATTEMPT to conduct bible studies with others.
well that's strange bc i remember having to turn in slips every month, and try to find interested ones to study with and bring them in.
now why would they deny all of this stuff in a trial where one of their ministers was sodomizing a bible study's child? could it be to limit liability???
jwfacts has an article that explains why the great crowd must be in heaven.
i am also aware that many of these are the same arguments that stemmed from the 'awakenings at bethel' so my statements are not simply attacks of jwfact's character (since these arguments are probably not original) but rather his copy and paste of what others have said instead of verifying it as 'fact' for himself.. so here are jwfacts arguments:.
1. he shows that russell and rutherford (at some point) believed that the great crowd were in heaven.. 2. each term that describes the great crowd of revelation 7 is else used to described the anointed by the wt.
so they've been wrong before. how do you know they are not wrong now?
they've DECEIVED before. how do you know they are not deceiving now?
really, they've come up with a beautiful cover that's very tough for the indocrinated to break. from personal experience, i know this and can empathize. the admission of former mistakes makes it SEEM as though they are honest, but is that really the case?
consider all those who left in 1919 or so. they bought into the hype, truly believed and the prophetic times come and go.
only to later say that those who left were weak and foolish for believing in the hype and that they had no faith.
consider how they were buying real estate in 1975, while encouraging and stoking the flames of that prophecy.
once again, only to later say that those who left were weak and foolish for believing in the hype and that they had no faith.
those are NOT admissions of guilt.
the covington trial, 99% of jws have NEVER heard of this. that's not honest in the least bit. had i seen that, even as a child i would have snapped out of the fog in a split second.
then there's the dorman court documents. that is downright scary.
jwfacts has an article that explains why the great crowd must be in heaven.
i am also aware that many of these are the same arguments that stemmed from the 'awakenings at bethel' so my statements are not simply attacks of jwfact's character (since these arguments are probably not original) but rather his copy and paste of what others have said instead of verifying it as 'fact' for himself.. so here are jwfacts arguments:.
1. he shows that russell and rutherford (at some point) believed that the great crowd were in heaven.. 2. each term that describes the great crowd of revelation 7 is else used to described the anointed by the wt.
@eom
that all life came from a soup is an old theory and very much irrelevant to evolution itself.
that said, evolution and god do not have to be mutually exclusive, although in my view point it simply leaves me at the agnostic stage.
most of the time lol
jwfacts has an article that explains why the great crowd must be in heaven.
i am also aware that many of these are the same arguments that stemmed from the 'awakenings at bethel' so my statements are not simply attacks of jwfact's character (since these arguments are probably not original) but rather his copy and paste of what others have said instead of verifying it as 'fact' for himself.. so here are jwfacts arguments:.
1. he shows that russell and rutherford (at some point) believed that the great crowd were in heaven.. 2. each term that describes the great crowd of revelation 7 is else used to described the anointed by the wt.
Well I'm still a Jw. Still pioneering. Still reading the older nutty quotes and still fully functional. I probably know more about science (specifically, evolution) than most people here and most JW's in general, but I'm still here. Welp, there goes your theory.
so you know about:
beth shan, beth sarim
you know that 1914 was originally calculated by using the pyramids and that it was 1915 until they realized there was no year 0
you know that they were overtly racist rather than some of the covert stff we're seeing today
you know that evolution is fact and that the jws teach it's not
you've reconciled all of this with their stances on organ transplants which literally killed people until they corrected that little hiccup
and you've seen allllllllllllllllllllll the prophecies that have come and gone with some nice truth massaging...
and yet you still believe.
stunning. i forgot people could be sucked in that deep.
you know about 1984, you know about 1975, you know about the miracle wheat or how russel was forced to admit he was a liar while on the stand in canada?
you know that they "sold cancer cures" back in the early days...man i'm JUST getting warmed up. this isn't even the tip of the iceberg. that was just the lone electron from the highest hydrogen atom on the iceberg. i haven't even touched the toxic dumping, the child abuse scandals, the fremont kingdom hall stuff and there's so much more.
you need to do some serious studying and soul searching regarding this stuff because i can't see how a rational being can be confronted with alllllll of that and still believe it's not grade a mierda.
so i'm curious. how is it that such a perfect god could somehow get his communication all screwed up. let's not forget:
that is basic wts theology right?
so once again, with THAT in mind, how is it in any way, shape, or form REASONABLE to conclude that god was cool with the witnessesproclaiming so many false prophecies? that stumbled quite a few people and i know the watchtower tells you that they simply weren't strong enough, but my answer to that is...no true scotsman.
the kicker though, is that under oath, on trial, your boys admitted that they pushed false prophecy and that it was more important to keep the witnesses in line and marching to the beat of the WRONG DRUM, rather than for you guys to have an independent thought.
and somehow you're okay with all this?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2211469/is-tom-cruise-finally-seeing-light-scientology.html.
scientology's most famous adherent, tom cruise, is believed to be receiving special dispensation to see his daughter, suri, six, after ex-wife katie holmes withdrew herself and their daughter from the membership.
normally members are forbidden from contacting ex-partners who leave the 60-year-old cult.
i didn't expect to feel sorry for the guy. then again we all came out of a cult so...
thank god WE didn't have to be secretly videotaped right??? :P
jwfacts has an article that explains why the great crowd must be in heaven.
i am also aware that many of these are the same arguments that stemmed from the 'awakenings at bethel' so my statements are not simply attacks of jwfact's character (since these arguments are probably not original) but rather his copy and paste of what others have said instead of verifying it as 'fact' for himself.. so here are jwfacts arguments:.
1. he shows that russell and rutherford (at some point) believed that the great crowd were in heaven.. 2. each term that describes the great crowd of revelation 7 is else used to described the anointed by the wt.
i feel sad and left out.
i don't get a response? covington's testimony was so interesting!
jwfacts has an article that explains why the great crowd must be in heaven.
i am also aware that many of these are the same arguments that stemmed from the 'awakenings at bethel' so my statements are not simply attacks of jwfact's character (since these arguments are probably not original) but rather his copy and paste of what others have said instead of verifying it as 'fact' for himself.. so here are jwfacts arguments:.
1. he shows that russell and rutherford (at some point) believed that the great crowd were in heaven.. 2. each term that describes the great crowd of revelation 7 is else used to described the anointed by the wt.
How will they 'no longer hunger or thirst or experience the heat from the sun' anymore when they have HEAVENLY, SPIRITUAL, IMMORTAL BODIES?
i thought spirits don't get hungry, thirsty and all that...
so if they turned into spirits, and spirits don't get hungry or thirsty or hot then...?
as for the tears biz...explanations i've always heard within the org was that god would magically erase all those awful memories of this system. kinda like that flaher thingy in men in black i guess. that was a good movie. i don't care what anyone says, i liked 'em.
then of course we could say it is all figurative and that could work for a bit i suppose.
of course i'd point out that both arguments are erroneous considering we don't even know if there IS a heaven, much less a great crowd or even god...
still lrather curious about your thoughts on covington...
